Wednesday, May 5, 2010

My final post on another blog

Thanks Sarah, Savannah, Darcy, Abby and L. It was wonderful to hear people so full of love and faith and seeking real truth.

I am saddened that questioning the doctrine that Christians are forbidden to marry unbelievers has actually shut this blog down, and surprised as well. Its not like its a basic tenet of the faith, like the fall of man, the virgin birth and sinless life of Christ, his death on the cross and his glorious resurrection, his sending the Holy Spirit to dwell in us who trust in Him and love Him.

I assure everyone I believe in Jesus completely and in the inerrant Holy Scripture, but not in the inerrency of the church in formulating doctrine.

Peace and love in Christ to all.


  1. That really does shock me, that I was called a liberal who obviously did not believe in the inerrancy of scripture because I disagree with that interpretation of scripture on that peripheral issue.

    I thought I was very plain that I was searching the scripture diligently, and I just could not see any place that spelled it marriage to a non-Christian as a sin, though I did concede that I Cor 7:39 could mean that (actually only a spouse "in the Lord" or a decision "only in the Lord" I haven't hooked up with anyone knowing the Greek grammar yet.) Seriously searching still, in the spirit of the Bereans. Searching in sola scriptura!

    And I will keep searching the Scriptures, for they testify of Jesus! Thank you Savior, for your love that never fails. I live for you Jesus, and I lift this new twist on life up to you as well. Be glorified in us, your people. Amen.

  2. Thank you for having the heart of a Berean. As a frequent poster there, I am shocked as well, but sometimes among Christians there is a "hermeneutic of grace and generosity", and sometimes there is a "hermeneutic of legalism". It is easy to fall into the trap of the latter, and no doubt, we all do it. We have to be very careful to look at what people are really trying to express and just because someone disagrees with a certain interpretation of scripture, or even just simply questions it, does not mean that there is an issue with inerrency.

    Keep searching the Scriptures - I really got a lot out of your Context, Context, Context post.

  3. I was rather upset myself and actually felt physically sick that someone would think that, just because I questioned whether marriage between Christians and non-Christians was actually a sin that I believed in cheap grace, that the Bible wasn't inerrant and that I was a liberal! I was also shocked that such an obvious ad hominem argument was used. Talk about judgement! 'Because you believe this - then of course you must be a liberal'. Err, no actually - and what exactly does that rather generalised word mean? That everything is permissible? :P Oh, wait, it is because we are not under the law! Sin is still sin and not everything is beneficial - all true Christians want to remain sanctified for God. But do we really, really fully understand grace? Will any effort of our own to follow scripture by the letter help our relationship with God? Scripture is the truth, but we must live in the Spirit to fully understand that truth and if we try by our own works of the flesh to follow it then we are no more than law keepers (and scripture is clear on that).

    I did email thatmom - but thus far she hasn't replied, but that's her prerogative just as is shutting down the True Womanhood blog. However, it's a shame the blog has been shut down just because everyone wasn't in total agreement about what the scripture meant. We all see 'through a glass darkly', only when Jesus returns will we see clearly perfected in His love.

    Also, if the administrator feels that any comment is 'dangerous' then for goodness sake, set out clear rules and then moderate the comments properly rather than approving the comments but then suddenly the knee jerk reaction of shutting down the blog because you got an angry email! Seems a bit extreme to me.

    Equally (sorry I'm going on a bit now, lol), not much support for us alleged 'weaker brothers' and allowing for 'each man to be fully persuaded in their own mind'. Sheesh!

    Ok I'll stop now. Hope you aren't too upset, it can be hurtful when things like this happen.


  4. Yes! The " 'all things are permissible' but not all things are beneficial" (I Cor 6:12, I Cor 10:23) could certainly apply here. I wondered why no one brought that up!

    And thank you for "going on a bit". Words mean a lot to me and I appreciate your taking the time to write them down and gift them to me. :)

    It is likely that "guilty by association" was used to come up with those outrageous statements. You see, I am a member of an Evangelical Lutheran congregation.

    Our congregation, like MANY others in the ELCA, are in the process of leaving the ELCA as, due to political maneuverings, a minority faction in support of homosexuality was able to win a vote in favor of ordaining practicing homosexuals.

    Our whole congregation has grieved this development, some more deeply than others. It is a painful subject, and I have not blogged about it publicly because, honestly, the ELCA itself doesn't mean that much to me. (I have only been attending this church for two years. I am not hurt like those who have been in this denomination their whole lives.)

    My congregation, however, means the world to me and I thank God every day for my pastor and fellow disciples! And we, as a congregation, do NOT support this development at all!

    I never came out publicly to distance myself from the ELCA because I didn't see any reason to discuss it online. I don't see that it needed to be discussed outside of out Lutheran community.

    All I did was sadly change my religious affiliation on facebook that day, from "ELCA" to merely "Christian"- which is what it should have been all along anyway. ( I Corinthians 1:10-13)

    I am only guessing that this is what led to the site moderator's change of heart towards me. Certainly none of my posts have ever even suggested that I have anything but the highest regard for our awesome God and the Word that testifies of Him.

    In fact, on this particular subject, I was insisting that no one add to the Word of God or make it say anything other than what it plainly sets forth. Which is also why, no matter how you slice it, homosexuality is not an acceptable way to live loved in the kingdom of God. Scripture is pretty plain about that.

    But I must also add this: the absence of homosexual practice (or other habitual practice of sin) does not make one a disciple of Jesus. All of our leaders should be far more than simply "not this" or "not that".

    Those who aspire to be leaders in the church should be servants of all, who love like Jesus loved to the best of their ability, who handle the Word of God with utmost respect and honesty, who continuously consider others as more worthy of honor than they themselves. who keep a teachable spirit, who do not consider themselves to have arrived but are continuously pressing on...

    And our Lutheran pastor fits that description well!

    I am honored to share life with this congregation led by this pastor, and those who misjudge us by jumping to conclusions, without seeking to know the truth, will one day be embarrassed by their actions.

    As I no doubt will also be about the many foolish things I have said/done/believed on the day we see Him face to face.

  5. It sounds like your church has had quite a journey! But a worthwhile one. The Word of God must be upheld as the truth in all things.

    And I agree, sin is sin but (as you say) the lack of certain practices doesn't make anyone any better than another. Just because I'm not homosexual doesn't make me any less a sinner than anyone else. Many of the Pharisees that Jesus called hypocrites no doubt followed the law to the letter and didn't practice any of the outward sins - but inwardly they were as sinful as the publicans and prostitutes - the worst thing was they looked down on the prostitute and considered themselves 'good'.

    I identify too with your closing thoughts. I vaguely recall CS Lewis writing about God saying that many think that it will be lovely looking into the face of absolute goodness - but really (as Isaiah cried out) we'll no doubt fall to the floor and cry out, "Woe to me!" I cried. "I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty."

    Thank the Lord for Jesus, for without Him I am certainly ruined.


  6. Shadowspring,
    this is my first comment, but not my first visit to your blog. I found it by way of a friend who is helping me cope with a situation which is similar to yours with regard to your husband.

    I hope it's not out of line to comment on this post. I just wanted to let you know how grateful I am that you re-posted the other, more personal, experiences you've gone through with your husband. I read them before you took them down (I totally get why you had to do that)
    Thank you. It is vital that I understand and process what is happening to me and those posts were helpful.

    As for this particular post, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. I don't know all the ins and outs, but I know what happens when you question the status quo. It seems like some of the church is so set on a doctrine du jour, they lose sight of what's most important.

    I was so spiritually abused by the evangelical church, that I wound up in an Episcopal church! I don't agree with their stance on homosexuality, but I have no other place that accepts me where I'm at right now.
    I have found a healing there that was not available to me at the Calvary/Baptist churches I have attended since I became a Christian. Sometimes I marvel at the Lord's mercy...that He can keep me close to Him through all that legalism and judgment. But it's a hard road that doesn't ever really lead to Him and I'm glad I'm taking another now.

    The Episcopal bishop is female, the sermons and hymns focus on Christ, and the Holy Eucharist is soothing to my broken soul...and also, I simply couldn't bear to listen to another man tell me what my role as a Christian wife was supposed to look like.
    So I will continue to go there until God puts me elsewhere. I think that is real grace.

    My blog doesn't really say anything about me personally. It's mostly just my take on politics, but that's because politics was the only thing I was ever 'allowed' to discuss with my husband...and even then I had to be careful that we agreed. Since our separation, I've left a lot of political dogma behind. Most of what I write is an expression of my need for real freedom. I've lived with tyranny for all of my life. I guess you could say I have a metaphor blog. :) Anyway, it's safe, but not very revealing.

    You've been through a great deal and still retain a wonderful attitude and outlook. I know that is the Lord working, and I intend to keep checking in and gaining wisdom from your thoughts.

    Thank you for your honesty.

  7. Sarah said: "I was rather upset myself and actually felt physically sick that someone would think that, just because I questioned whether marriage between Christians and non-Christians was actually a sin that I believed in cheap grace, that the Bible wasn't inerrant and that I was a liberal!"

    My thoughts exactly! I was so shocked. I do understand some comments not being beneficial to the readers, but for goodness' sake...delete them, talk to the people responsible, and make some guidelines. I am very saddened by this turn of events.

    And, for the record, I NEVER said it was good or OK to marry an unbeliever. (I believe I said it was a bad idea, for numerous reasons.) Just that I didn't see where scripture said it was a SIN. I am sorry to lose the great discussions I've participated in with all you ladies. Hopefully this can be resolved in a graceful manner and soon.


  8. It has been pointed out to me that this happened on another popular blog where people spoke out against patriarchy. I have to wonder if this situation is similar, in that a patriarchal or patriarchal-"lite" person has infiltrated the community, and proceeded to scold and shame and attempt to foist legalistic "theology" upon the community (all the while claiming not to be a legalist). Eventually, this person seems to appeal to the desire of the blog owner to always portray the "correct" worldview, and perhaps even the pride of the owner(s), by claiming to be, for instance, FLOORED by the liberal-ness of the other posters and how lukewarm their Christianity is. For good measure, the interloper may throw in some fear of what the patrios may even think of the owner of the blog for allowing any discussion besides the interloper's brand of orthodoxy.

    The owner can certainly do what she wants with the site, but I think it is pretty clear that one person basically hijacked an entire community where honest and respectful discussion took place by many Bereans, and the owner played inadvertently right into her hands, IMO. I find it sad for the non-Christians who frequented the site and were also part of our community. More than worrying about what patrios think of us, shouldn't we be concerned of the witness that we bear that suggests that a group of Christians were unable to, through grace and mercy toward each other, work out any difficulties?

    I don't know if it will be resolved or not (although I hope so). I enjoyed the site, and have a great deal of respect for many of the posters there. I learned a lot, was edified a great deal, and I shared a lot, so I am grateful for that opportunity while it lasted.

  9. Ladies, please pray for my daughter. She had to be put in the hospital today for a staph infection. She has finals all next week and she was supposed to go to field training in two weeks. I am very concerned. I just left her for the evening so we could both get some sleep. I know you all walk with God and I will sleep better knowing you are joining your prayers with mine.

  10. I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter's illness, and that it has become severe enough for her to have to be hospitalized! I will pray and just asked my husband to pray for her as well, as well as your whole family during this stressful time.

  11. Thank you so so much, Savannah! Btw, the chaplain at the hospital last night was a woman. =) That was comforting.

    Daughter sent an image text last night, and she was much improved. I'm heading out that way again now. ( I on the other hand have a few hives today! Stress. LOL This will all just be a memory by Monday.)

    Praise you Jesus for your unfailing love!!!

  12. I'll keep her in my prayers too. x

    Savannah: "I find it sad for the non-Christians who frequented the site and were also part of our community. More than worrying about what patrios think of us, shouldn't we be concerned of the witness that we bear that suggests that a group of Christians were unable to, through grace and mercy toward each other, work out any difficulties?"

    I agree and I agree with all the commentators here, I hope it can be resolved.

    - Sarah

  13. I'm not sure why my latest comment won't show. On your main blog it says 12 comments and then when I click on 'comments' it says 11 comments! Lol.

    I can't remember what I posted but I agree with everyone's thoughts.

    I'll be praying for your daughter. x


  14. lol now my older comment has appeared and not my new one! :) -Sarah

  15. Shadowspring, how is your daughter doing tonight?

  16. I was sent an email to make clear to me that the website is not "shut down", just closed to comments.

    Okay, but I never said it was closed down, as I didn't know if it was or wasn't. It is, however, closed to me, by my choice. It is the owner's decision to do what she wants, but it is also my decision not to be jerked around like a poodle on a leash, so I removed the site from my favorites when I first became aware of the brouhaha. I only have time on the average day to follow a few blogs, so I must be judicious with which ones I choose.

    The other site which fell victim, IMO, to a similar scenario is not closed, either, btw. It has just largely become irrelevant and last I checked, no one had posted in a long time.

    The attraction of the site in question was always the discussion that took place and the community of posters (commenters), not the articles or links that were posted, so I'm not sure if there is a material difference, but I am happy to clarify the exact nature of the situation if it is important to the sender of the email.

  17. I too enjoyed reading the comment discussions. I wasn't a regular commenter but I learned a lot through the sharing. For me the blog is now 'shut' because it was the comments I enjoyed reading. I can read articles elsewhere (there are plenty on the subject) but I don't know of any blogs that have such a great community discussion forum on a variety of topics affecting Christian women - where, until recently, people could really share openly and honestly. Even if comments were opened up I would be reticent at posting my own comments again for fear I wasn't toeing some invisible party line (i.e. interpreting scripture the 'right' way).

    Judging by the tone of the last two postings on TW the blog administrator obviously is stressed out by the whole thing, perhaps it's better for her to take a break.


  18. Good news to share! My daughter is home from the hospital, her leg is looking much better, and we can all chill around here again.

    Well,not her. She has five finals on T-W-Th and then we go back for the final doctor visit. He will give his okay or not okay for field training at that time.

    I really hope she is well enough to go, though of course I don't want her to go if she is not well.

    Re: discussion blogs getting shut down- yes, it was a wonderful place for the free exchange of ideas and I am sad to see it closed.

    I hope we can find another place to freely comment, and share our hearts and find grace and welcome from one another again. That would be awesome.

  19. Oh, and thanks redink and Sarah! I appreciate your comments.

    There was no wi-fi at the hospital, so I haven't been on the computer much at all the last three days.

    Comments are unmoderated so they should appear as soon as you post. And if they don't I would be as stumped as you. =)

  20. So glad your daughter is home and doing better, Shadowspring. I hope she is feeling well enough to prepare for her finals, or that she has understanding profs.

  21. Thanks, Savannah, I appreciate your good will. She is studying now, and I do hope she will do well on all her exams.

  22. Yes glad to hear your daughter is home and feeling better. I'll keep praying for her as she recuperates and prepares for her exams. x


  23. I hope we can find another place to freely comment, and share our hearts and find grace and welcome from one another again. That would be awesome.

    Why not here?? :-)

  24. Everyone is welcome to post here. I'm not sure my topics will always be comment worthy.